UKIP comes out on top in South West vote

UKIP comes out on top in South West vote

UKIP comes out on top in South West vote

First published in Wiltshire by , Senior reporter for Marlborough and Pewsey

UKIP won two of the six South West seats in the European Elections, with Wiltshire being one of the few districts in the area where the party did not come out on top.

The anti-EU party received 40,951 Wiltshire votes, coming second to the Conservatives who gained 46,306.

These results were then combined with the rest from the South West region, which includes Gibraltar, to decide the six MEPs who will represent the area in the European Parliament.

Across the South West, UKIP came out on top gaining, 484,184 votes, with the Conservatives in second with 433,151.

Labour polled 206,124 votes, the Green Party 166,447 and the Liberal Democrats 160,376.

Representing the South West will be William Dartmouth and Julia Reid for UKIP, Ashley Peter Fox and Julie McCulloch Girling for the Conservatives, Clare Moody for Labour and Molly Scott Cato for the Green party.

The result was a boost for Labour, who gained one MEP from the Conservatives, but a further blow for the Lib Dems, who lost their one MEP to the Green Party.

Olympic rowing gold medallist James Cracknell was third on the list of Conservative candidates for the area so missed out on a seat.

Turnout in the county was 36.9 per cent, down 3.1 per cent from the last European Election, and the results were announced at Christie Miller Sports Centre last night.

Lead returning officer at the Melksham count Carlton Brand said: "I think the biggest surprise is UKIP coming second [in Wiltshire] because nationally they were expecting to win and in Wiltshire they haven't but if you look at the results they're not a million miles away from the Conservatives.

"I was expecting a lower turnout so I am pleased. For the last European election there was a 40 per cent turnout but that was combined with unitary elections which always pushes the figures up.

"If you compare it with general elections there is usually a 60 to 65 per cent turnout so it’s not fantastic from that point.”

Comments (63)

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10:34am Mon 26 May 14

candid friend says...

UKIP control no councils, and have no MP's.They are in no position to stop immigration, and their other policies are not credible.l
It is always amusing to see the (posh boys) getting a hammering, but in my opinion the UK should stay in the EU and press for reform with like minded states.
The PM has agreed to a referendum on Scottish Independence which he didn't have to do.
He has also given into his right wing fanatics in committing his party to an in/out referendum on the EU.
If he loses both of these votes he will be the most damaging PM of modern times. Who broke up the UK, and excluded us from Europe.
We know from long experience that if we ignore europe, we get drawn in
sooner or later as troubles start.
UKIP control no councils, and have no MP's.They are in no position to stop immigration, and their other policies are not credible.l It is always amusing to see the (posh boys) getting a hammering, but in my opinion the UK should stay in the EU and press for reform with like minded states. The PM has agreed to a referendum on Scottish Independence which he didn't have to do. He has also given into his right wing fanatics in committing his party to an in/out referendum on the EU. If he loses both of these votes he will be the most damaging PM of modern times. Who broke up the UK, and excluded us from Europe. We know from long experience that if we ignore europe, we get drawn in sooner or later as troubles start. candid friend
  • Score: -38

10:38am Mon 26 May 14

ChannelX says...

The reason UKIP have done so well is largely due to some people labelling anyone who wishes to have a say over our membership of the EU as 'right wing fanatics'.

The left seem to know, full well, the majority of the nation wishes to leave the EU and seems determined to keep us in the EU by any undemocractic means necessary.

A vote for Labour means denying yourself your democratic rights. Worth remembering come general election time next year.
The reason UKIP have done so well is largely due to some people labelling anyone who wishes to have a say over our membership of the EU as 'right wing fanatics'. The left seem to know, full well, the majority of the nation wishes to leave the EU and seems determined to keep us in the EU by any undemocractic means necessary. A vote for Labour means denying yourself your democratic rights. Worth remembering come general election time next year. ChannelX
  • Score: 29

11:20am Mon 26 May 14

gambon says...

lets hope that ukip put a couple of people up at the general election and hope we can get rid of the same old politics in this country and help us get england back
lets hope that ukip put a couple of people up at the general election and hope we can get rid of the same old politics in this country and help us get england back gambon
  • Score: 37

11:27am Mon 26 May 14

shed says...

Thereby proving the assertion that you could put a turnip with a blue rosette up for election and the local coalition of self interest toffs /masons/ golf clubbers/common purpose set would still vote for it.

I'm still waiting for the next council elections to have a whack at Scott Thompson and co, might not be such a walkover for them as they expect.
Thereby proving the assertion that you could put a turnip with a blue rosette up for election and the local coalition of self interest toffs /masons/ golf clubbers/common purpose set would still vote for it. I'm still waiting for the next council elections to have a whack at Scott Thompson and co, might not be such a walkover for them as they expect. shed
  • Score: 6

11:45am Mon 26 May 14

trolley dolley says...

The people of Britain have had enough of soft politics.

UKKIP may not yet have the clout to alter things, but it will come.

The old political parties will have to change or lose.
The people of Britain have had enough of soft politics. UKKIP may not yet have the clout to alter things, but it will come. The old political parties will have to change or lose. trolley dolley
  • Score: 28

12:12pm Mon 26 May 14

RichardR1 says...

Interesting in Swindon UKIP took votes away from Labour in the locals, not what our two MP's kept suggesting. So it's any ones game in the GE. if enough from all sides had the courage to vote UKIP things would change.
Interesting in Swindon UKIP took votes away from Labour in the locals, not what our two MP's kept suggesting. So it's any ones game in the GE. if enough from all sides had the courage to vote UKIP things would change. RichardR1
  • Score: 11

2:02pm Mon 26 May 14

Wildwestener says...

ChannelX wrote:
The reason UKIP have done so well is largely due to some people labelling anyone who wishes to have a say over our membership of the EU as 'right wing fanatics'.

The left seem to know, full well, the majority of the nation wishes to leave the EU and seems determined to keep us in the EU by any undemocractic means necessary.

A vote for Labour means denying yourself your democratic rights. Worth remembering come general election time next year.
In 1983, the Labour Party stood on a manifesto that included leaving the EU. They were labelled Loony Lefties. EU membership is not a left/right issue, it is an issue of sovereignty and democracy which both a large minority who have voted for UKIP (approx. 10% of the total electorate: approx. 30% or the 1/3 of the electorate who bothered to vote) and the majority who didn't bother to vote have possibly realised.
I would be gobsmacked if Labour are not forced into a position of agreeing to a referendum if elected. This I think will be the actual victory for UKIP. Then the British people can have their say and we can all stop talking about it one way or the other.
[quote][p][bold]ChannelX[/bold] wrote: The reason UKIP have done so well is largely due to some people labelling anyone who wishes to have a say over our membership of the EU as 'right wing fanatics'. The left seem to know, full well, the majority of the nation wishes to leave the EU and seems determined to keep us in the EU by any undemocractic means necessary. A vote for Labour means denying yourself your democratic rights. Worth remembering come general election time next year.[/p][/quote]In 1983, the Labour Party stood on a manifesto that included leaving the EU. They were labelled Loony Lefties. EU membership is not a left/right issue, it is an issue of sovereignty and democracy which both a large minority who have voted for UKIP (approx. 10% of the total electorate: approx. 30% or the 1/3 of the electorate who bothered to vote) and the majority who didn't bother to vote have possibly realised. I would be gobsmacked if Labour are not forced into a position of agreeing to a referendum if elected. This I think will be the actual victory for UKIP. Then the British people can have their say and we can all stop talking about it one way or the other. Wildwestener
  • Score: 12

2:17pm Mon 26 May 14

hareymary says...

The country is running full-pelt into fascism. It's a sad, sad day.
The country is running full-pelt into fascism. It's a sad, sad day. hareymary
  • Score: -28

2:33pm Mon 26 May 14

Sarah-jane12 says...

Glad Wiltshire had some sense.
Glad Wiltshire had some sense. Sarah-jane12
  • Score: -2

3:21pm Mon 26 May 14

Hmmmf says...

hareymary wrote:
The country is running full-pelt into fascism. It's a sad, sad day.
Of course it isn't. Nonsense and hyperbole. Since when has a democratic expression of a desire for self-determination and national sovereignty been 'fascism'?
[quote][p][bold]hareymary[/bold] wrote: The country is running full-pelt into fascism. It's a sad, sad day.[/p][/quote]Of course it isn't. Nonsense and hyperbole. Since when has a democratic expression of a desire for self-determination and national sovereignty been 'fascism'? Hmmmf
  • Score: 21

3:36pm Mon 26 May 14

politepanda says...

hareymary wrote:
The country is running full-pelt into fascism. It's a sad, sad day.
What on earth do you mean?
[quote][p][bold]hareymary[/bold] wrote: The country is running full-pelt into fascism. It's a sad, sad day.[/p][/quote]What on earth do you mean? politepanda
  • Score: 10

3:57pm Mon 26 May 14

salt and vinegar says...

Hareymary, get a grip!!!
Hareymary, get a grip!!! salt and vinegar
  • Score: 14

5:33pm Mon 26 May 14

shed says...

hareymary wrote:
The country is running full-pelt into fascism. It's a sad, sad day.
Hark!! I hear the voice of the Loony Left bleating in the wilderness.
oh dear oh dear.
[quote][p][bold]hareymary[/bold] wrote: The country is running full-pelt into fascism. It's a sad, sad day.[/p][/quote]Hark!! I hear the voice of the Loony Left bleating in the wilderness. oh dear oh dear. shed
  • Score: 10

5:46pm Mon 26 May 14

jezercalne says...

I fear most of Europe seems to have voted for racist bigot parties. This is indeed a bad day for our future. I just hope that next year the UK will return to sanity. If not the future is bleak.
I fear most of Europe seems to have voted for racist bigot parties. This is indeed a bad day for our future. I just hope that next year the UK will return to sanity. If not the future is bleak. jezercalne
  • Score: -15

6:12pm Mon 26 May 14

salt and vinegar says...

I think you need some sanity jezercalne.
I think you need some sanity jezercalne. salt and vinegar
  • Score: 10

6:21pm Mon 26 May 14

LordCharles says...

Local and European elections are rarely an indication of what will happen in a General Election. Between now and then most main parties will change direction or reinforce popular ideas and suggestions to trawl for votes. We will all be conned again. We may even be conned again and vote UKIP. The voting public have a very poor memory.
Local and European elections are rarely an indication of what will happen in a General Election. Between now and then most main parties will change direction or reinforce popular ideas and suggestions to trawl for votes. We will all be conned again. We may even be conned again and vote UKIP. The voting public have a very poor memory. LordCharles
  • Score: -2

7:19pm Mon 26 May 14

Phantom Poster says...

RichardR1 wrote:
Interesting in Swindon UKIP took votes away from Labour in the locals, not what our two MP's kept suggesting. So it's any ones game in the GE. if enough from all sides had the courage to vote UKIP things would change.
Explain to me Bob - how does voting for UKIP involve "courage"?
[quote][p][bold]RichardR1[/bold] wrote: Interesting in Swindon UKIP took votes away from Labour in the locals, not what our two MP's kept suggesting. So it's any ones game in the GE. if enough from all sides had the courage to vote UKIP things would change.[/p][/quote]Explain to me Bob - how does voting for UKIP involve "courage"? Phantom Poster
  • Score: 9

8:11pm Mon 26 May 14

house on the hill says...

gambon wrote:
lets hope that ukip put a couple of people up at the general election and hope we can get rid of the same old politics in this country and help us get england back
Get England back from what and turn it into what exactly? Lots of empty words but no solutions that I have seen or heard. Ok so get out of Europe and shut the door on immigration and then what? All i have heard so far is what we shouldn't be doing but no one seems to have any meaningful plans about what comes next! The present Govt are getting the economy back on track and finally getting to grips with the runaway welfare state, a **** sight better than the last lot did!
[quote][p][bold]gambon[/bold] wrote: lets hope that ukip put a couple of people up at the general election and hope we can get rid of the same old politics in this country and help us get england back[/p][/quote]Get England back from what and turn it into what exactly? Lots of empty words but no solutions that I have seen or heard. Ok so get out of Europe and shut the door on immigration and then what? All i have heard so far is what we shouldn't be doing but no one seems to have any meaningful plans about what comes next! The present Govt are getting the economy back on track and finally getting to grips with the runaway welfare state, a **** sight better than the last lot did! house on the hill
  • Score: 3

8:12pm Mon 26 May 14

Davey Gravey says...

People voted ukip in a euro election as they are anti Europe.
The general election will be totally different.
Labour will win that. Now hit those thumbs troll.
People voted ukip in a euro election as they are anti Europe. The general election will be totally different. Labour will win that. Now hit those thumbs troll. Davey Gravey
  • Score: -12

9:26pm Mon 26 May 14

Phantom Poster says...

Davey Gravey wrote:
People voted ukip in a euro election as they are anti Europe.
The general election will be totally different.
Labour will win that. Now hit those thumbs troll.
Saying that Labour WILL win the general election is an obvious trolling statement, designed to provoke argument, with no basis in fact.

I never even notice the thumbs, until you keep banging on about them - you seem to be the only person who cares about them.
[quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: People voted ukip in a euro election as they are anti Europe. The general election will be totally different. Labour will win that. Now hit those thumbs troll.[/p][/quote]Saying that Labour WILL win the general election is an obvious trolling statement, designed to provoke argument, with no basis in fact. I never even notice the thumbs, until you keep banging on about them - you seem to be the only person who cares about them. Phantom Poster
  • Score: 1

9:33pm Mon 26 May 14

semitonic says...

RichardR1 wrote:
Interesting in Swindon UKIP took votes away from Labour in the locals, not what our two MP's kept suggesting. So it's any ones game in the GE. if enough from all sides had the courage to vote UKIP things would change.
Robbo's been drinking again.
[quote][p][bold]RichardR1[/bold] wrote: Interesting in Swindon UKIP took votes away from Labour in the locals, not what our two MP's kept suggesting. So it's any ones game in the GE. if enough from all sides had the courage to vote UKIP things would change.[/p][/quote]Robbo's been drinking again. semitonic
  • Score: 5

10:10pm Mon 26 May 14

melkshamwizard says...

candid friend wrote:
UKIP control no councils, and have no MP's.They are in no position to stop immigration, and their other policies are not credible.l
It is always amusing to see the (posh boys) getting a hammering, but in my opinion the UK should stay in the EU and press for reform with like minded states.
The PM has agreed to a referendum on Scottish Independence which he didn't have to do.
He has also given into his right wing fanatics in committing his party to an in/out referendum on the EU.
If he loses both of these votes he will be the most damaging PM of modern times. Who broke up the UK, and excluded us from Europe.
We know from long experience that if we ignore europe, we get drawn in
sooner or later as troubles start.
you sound just like Nick Clegg,out of touch with the real people , as are most of them in the commons
[quote][p][bold]candid friend[/bold] wrote: UKIP control no councils, and have no MP's.They are in no position to stop immigration, and their other policies are not credible.l It is always amusing to see the (posh boys) getting a hammering, but in my opinion the UK should stay in the EU and press for reform with like minded states. The PM has agreed to a referendum on Scottish Independence which he didn't have to do. He has also given into his right wing fanatics in committing his party to an in/out referendum on the EU. If he loses both of these votes he will be the most damaging PM of modern times. Who broke up the UK, and excluded us from Europe. We know from long experience that if we ignore europe, we get drawn in sooner or later as troubles start.[/p][/quote]you sound just like Nick Clegg,out of touch with the real people , as are most of them in the commons melkshamwizard
  • Score: 5

7:40am Tue 27 May 14

ChannelX says...

Davey Gravey wrote:
People voted ukip in a euro election as they are anti Europe.
The general election will be totally different.
Labour will win that. Now hit those thumbs troll.
Not with Ed Miliband as leader they won't.
[quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: People voted ukip in a euro election as they are anti Europe. The general election will be totally different. Labour will win that. Now hit those thumbs troll.[/p][/quote]Not with Ed Miliband as leader they won't. ChannelX
  • Score: 11

8:27am Tue 27 May 14

Harry_Collier says...

Hmmmf wrote:
hareymary wrote:
The country is running full-pelt into fascism. It's a sad, sad day.
Of course it isn't. Nonsense and hyperbole. Since when has a democratic expression of a desire for self-determination and national sovereignty been 'fascism'?
The thought of the triumph of the old nationalism in Europe, with 30 states all with their own frontier posts, customs officers and currencies is appalling. The countries of Europe, after centuries of wars, conflicts and hundreds of millions of dead, have to learn to live with their neighbours and to work together. A fragmented Europe, with each country doing its own thing, is good news only for the Americans, the Chinese and the Russians. Look at a map of the world: Europe is a tiny little continent with a rich history and rich future, if only we can learn to live and work together. The nationalistis and Little Englanders will drag us all down.
[quote][p][bold]Hmmmf[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hareymary[/bold] wrote: The country is running full-pelt into fascism. It's a sad, sad day.[/p][/quote]Of course it isn't. Nonsense and hyperbole. Since when has a democratic expression of a desire for self-determination and national sovereignty been 'fascism'?[/p][/quote]The thought of the triumph of the old nationalism in Europe, with 30 states all with their own frontier posts, customs officers and currencies is appalling. The countries of Europe, after centuries of wars, conflicts and hundreds of millions of dead, have to learn to live with their neighbours and to work together. A fragmented Europe, with each country doing its own thing, is good news only for the Americans, the Chinese and the Russians. Look at a map of the world: Europe is a tiny little continent with a rich history and rich future, if only we can learn to live and work together. The nationalistis and Little Englanders will drag us all down. Harry_Collier
  • Score: 4

8:30am Tue 27 May 14

house on the hill says...

Davey Gravey wrote:
People voted ukip in a euro election as they are anti Europe.
The general election will be totally different.
Labour will win that. Now hit those thumbs troll.
And over two thirds of the electorate are so fed up with the arrogance and self servance and scandal of politics and the fact that no matter who is in they eventually mess it up they just didnt bother. Maybe give us a party and people worth voting for and people might think its worth their while. Nothing will change no matter who is in and if you remember not one single person voted for the coalition we have now, so much for democracy!
[quote][p][bold]Davey Gravey[/bold] wrote: People voted ukip in a euro election as they are anti Europe. The general election will be totally different. Labour will win that. Now hit those thumbs troll.[/p][/quote]And over two thirds of the electorate are so fed up with the arrogance and self servance and scandal of politics and the fact that no matter who is in they eventually mess it up they just didnt bother. Maybe give us a party and people worth voting for and people might think its worth their while. Nothing will change no matter who is in and if you remember not one single person voted for the coalition we have now, so much for democracy! house on the hill
  • Score: 6

8:56am Tue 27 May 14

A.Baron-Cohen says...

I think that it is clear that middle England does not wish to be part of Europe, for the sake of this country, It would be better to have an EU referendum sooner rather than later or face the risk of a UKIP massive gain in Parliament at the next GE.
Most EU countries and companies are already taking steps to protect their interests and investments, so I do not think it will come as a shock to anyone that Britain becomes a neutral country like Switzerland
I think that it is clear that middle England does not wish to be part of Europe, for the sake of this country, It would be better to have an EU referendum sooner rather than later or face the risk of a UKIP massive gain in Parliament at the next GE. Most EU countries and companies are already taking steps to protect their interests and investments, so I do not think it will come as a shock to anyone that Britain becomes a neutral country like Switzerland A.Baron-Cohen
  • Score: 2

8:57am Tue 27 May 14

Enraged-Britain says...

Con/Lab/Lib have deceived Britain long enough. The rise of UKIP will continue - well done Nigel.
Con/Lab/Lib have deceived Britain long enough. The rise of UKIP will continue - well done Nigel. Enraged-Britain
  • Score: -2

9:36am Tue 27 May 14

shed says...

Democracy??????????

that's where no-one gets what anyone wants?

Where the minority group that screams bigot! the loudest gets to impose its will on the rest?

The loony left love to yap on about democracy, freedom of speech or scream racist bigot, yet they are the ones who'll scream and shout any opposing opinion down, the egg throwers and the like, the violent ones at any political demonstration.
The are the ones that strive stop anyone expressing a view different to their own.

I'm happy to be a little Englander in a little England that's content to go about its affairs without being dictated to by an organisation that hates us, or being dragged into wars that serve only others interests.

The loonies love to scream fascism at every opportunity yet the EU is showing itself to be the biggest fascist state yet.

Next the Marxist left will scream Nazi! ignoring the fact that NSDAP was the Workers Socialist Party of Germany.
Just like the EU in fact.
Democracy?????????? that's where no-one gets what anyone wants? Where the minority group that screams bigot! the loudest gets to impose its will on the rest? The loony left love to yap on about democracy, freedom of speech or scream racist bigot, yet they are the ones who'll scream and shout any opposing opinion down, the egg throwers and the like, the violent ones at any political demonstration. The are the ones that strive stop anyone expressing a view different to their own. I'm happy to be a little Englander in a little England that's content to go about its affairs without being dictated to by an organisation that hates us, or being dragged into wars that serve only others interests. The loonies love to scream fascism at every opportunity yet the EU is showing itself to be the biggest fascist state yet. Next the Marxist left will scream Nazi! ignoring the fact that NSDAP was the Workers Socialist Party of Germany. Just like the EU in fact. shed
  • Score: 1

10:55am Tue 27 May 14

ChannelX says...

@shed - entirely the case. You will never find anyone as fascist as a left-winger. They hide behind the notion of being 'caring', while being absolutely anti-everything they don't agree with, in a similar manner to how religious people act appallingly but think it's fine as long as they keep going to church on a Sunday.
@shed - entirely the case. You will never find anyone as fascist as a left-winger. They hide behind the notion of being 'caring', while being absolutely anti-everything they don't agree with, in a similar manner to how religious people act appallingly but think it's fine as long as they keep going to church on a Sunday. ChannelX
  • Score: 1

12:06pm Tue 27 May 14

politepanda says...

It would be good - to have political parties/politicians worth voting for. Nice to be able to elect a govt. that won't bite the population at the first opportunity.
Voting for the best of what's available - when the best isn't worth writing home about - (and you certainly couldn't turn your back on them!) - that's all we have.
It would be good - to have political parties/politicians worth voting for. Nice to be able to elect a govt. that won't bite the population at the first opportunity. Voting for the best of what's available - when the best isn't worth writing home about - (and you certainly couldn't turn your back on them!) - that's all we have. politepanda
  • Score: 3

12:36pm Tue 27 May 14

shed says...

politepanda wrote:
It would be good - to have political parties/politicians worth voting for. Nice to be able to elect a govt. that won't bite the population at the first opportunity.
Voting for the best of what's available - when the best isn't worth writing home about - (and you certainly couldn't turn your back on them!) - that's all we have.
Don't vote
Or if you feel the need to vote, spoil the paper, by writing none of the above across it.

The system will only change when we the voters band together and show our disgust for what we have now.

We have vote rigging, gerrymandering, manipulation of electoral boundaries and a monied class who will vote for whoever keeps the cash flowing in by whatever devious means they earn it.

Which is why Wiltshire did not elect Ukip.
We need elected representatives who can be trusted to vote on any issue for what is right and just and in the interest of the electorate,not because its the party line, or will impact on the interests of the golf club members.

Fat chance.

All of the above is illustrated by the rotten shambles that is WCC and its contemptuous and arrogant administration.

The establishment has had a kick up the rear all over Europe, not just in the UK and is worried, so do not be conned by whatever lies they'll concoct in the following year, in 2015 we can give this lot a real hiding.
The one thing they really fear is an end to voter apathy.
[quote][p][bold]politepanda[/bold] wrote: It would be good - to have political parties/politicians worth voting for. Nice to be able to elect a govt. that won't bite the population at the first opportunity. Voting for the best of what's available - when the best isn't worth writing home about - (and you certainly couldn't turn your back on them!) - that's all we have.[/p][/quote]Don't vote Or if you feel the need to vote, spoil the paper, by writing none of the above across it. The system will only change when we the voters band together and show our disgust for what we have now. We have vote rigging, gerrymandering, manipulation of electoral boundaries and a monied class who will vote for whoever keeps the cash flowing in by whatever devious means they earn it. Which is why Wiltshire did not elect Ukip. We need elected representatives who can be trusted to vote on any issue for what is right and just and in the interest of the electorate,not because its the party line, or will impact on the interests of the golf club members. Fat chance. All of the above is illustrated by the rotten shambles that is WCC and its contemptuous and arrogant administration. The establishment has had a kick up the rear all over Europe, not just in the UK and is worried, so do not be conned by whatever lies they'll concoct in the following year, in 2015 we can give this lot a real hiding. The one thing they really fear is an end to voter apathy. shed
  • Score: 9

1:37pm Tue 27 May 14

house on the hill says...

Harry_Collier wrote:
Hmmmf wrote:
hareymary wrote:
The country is running full-pelt into fascism. It's a sad, sad day.
Of course it isn't. Nonsense and hyperbole. Since when has a democratic expression of a desire for self-determination and national sovereignty been 'fascism'?
The thought of the triumph of the old nationalism in Europe, with 30 states all with their own frontier posts, customs officers and currencies is appalling. The countries of Europe, after centuries of wars, conflicts and hundreds of millions of dead, have to learn to live with their neighbours and to work together. A fragmented Europe, with each country doing its own thing, is good news only for the Americans, the Chinese and the Russians. Look at a map of the world: Europe is a tiny little continent with a rich history and rich future, if only we can learn to live and work together. The nationalistis and Little Englanders will drag us all down.
Why is that bad? Why do you want to make a clone out of all those different states and cultures and climates and natural resources and languages and economies and strengths and weaknesses. We should be celebrating our differences not trying to change by force. That's like saying everyone in your street, should have the same house and car and number of kids and never lock their doors and everyone can just come and go as they please and you have no say in the matter Seriously?
[quote][p][bold]Harry_Collier[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Hmmmf[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]hareymary[/bold] wrote: The country is running full-pelt into fascism. It's a sad, sad day.[/p][/quote]Of course it isn't. Nonsense and hyperbole. Since when has a democratic expression of a desire for self-determination and national sovereignty been 'fascism'?[/p][/quote]The thought of the triumph of the old nationalism in Europe, with 30 states all with their own frontier posts, customs officers and currencies is appalling. The countries of Europe, after centuries of wars, conflicts and hundreds of millions of dead, have to learn to live with their neighbours and to work together. A fragmented Europe, with each country doing its own thing, is good news only for the Americans, the Chinese and the Russians. Look at a map of the world: Europe is a tiny little continent with a rich history and rich future, if only we can learn to live and work together. The nationalistis and Little Englanders will drag us all down.[/p][/quote]Why is that bad? Why do you want to make a clone out of all those different states and cultures and climates and natural resources and languages and economies and strengths and weaknesses. We should be celebrating our differences not trying to change by force. That's like saying everyone in your street, should have the same house and car and number of kids and never lock their doors and everyone can just come and go as they please and you have no say in the matter Seriously? house on the hill
  • Score: -1

3:29pm Tue 27 May 14

shed says...

What is Wrong with National Pride?
Just because a collection of proudly Nationalistic countries share common borders is no reason they should fight each other, unless of course the left's nut case element decides to stir things up.
We are encouraged on one hand to "celebrate" "cultural diversity" yet to celebrate our own is Facist?
Cultural diversity is an oxymoron in its-self.
At near 70yrs old I do not recall a problem with mass illegal immigration when each country controlled its own borders,they certainly would not have got as far as Calais as they have now.

Those of you out there who are so worried about with this alleged but non existent ,slide towards fascism are quite welcome to leave for a country that is against it.
Cuba maybe, north Korea, any of the former USSR states......Pakistan will welcome you no doubt.
What is Wrong with National Pride? Just because a collection of proudly Nationalistic countries share common borders is no reason they should fight each other, unless of course the left's nut case element decides to stir things up. We are encouraged on one hand to "celebrate" "cultural diversity" yet to celebrate our own is Facist? Cultural diversity is an oxymoron in its-self. At near 70yrs old I do not recall a problem with mass illegal immigration when each country controlled its own borders,they certainly would not have got as far as Calais as they have now. Those of you out there who are so worried about with this alleged but non existent [save in the minds of the loony left and limpdumbs],slide towards fascism are quite welcome to leave for a country that is against it. Cuba maybe, north Korea, any of the former USSR states......Pakistan will welcome you no doubt. shed
  • Score: 2

3:49pm Tue 27 May 14

Paul Tucker says...

Not fascism, just Thatcherism. I'm at a loss as to why anyone would want that.
Not fascism, just Thatcherism. I'm at a loss as to why anyone would want that. Paul Tucker
  • Score: 1

4:35pm Tue 27 May 14

Badgersgetabadname says...

As there appear to be some on here that voted UKIP could you help me understand some of the points?
There is allot of it that to me seems vague, the points system to enter the country for instance will this effect those already living in the country?
What constitutes worthwhile to the country?

What made you vote UKIP? Was it the immigration issue or being so disheartened by the powers that be?
What other UKIP policies do you support?

All help greatly appreciated.
As there appear to be some on here that voted UKIP could you help me understand some of the points? There is allot of it that to me seems vague, the points system to enter the country for instance will this effect those already living in the country? What constitutes worthwhile to the country? What made you vote UKIP? Was it the immigration issue or being so disheartened by the powers that be? What other UKIP policies do you support? All help greatly appreciated. Badgersgetabadname
  • Score: 2

5:02pm Tue 27 May 14

ChannelX says...

Badgersgetabadname wrote:
As there appear to be some on here that voted UKIP could you help me understand some of the points?
There is allot of it that to me seems vague, the points system to enter the country for instance will this effect those already living in the country?
What constitutes worthwhile to the country?

What made you vote UKIP? Was it the immigration issue or being so disheartened by the powers that be?
What other UKIP policies do you support?

All help greatly appreciated.
UKIP are advocating an Australian-style 'points system' for ANYONE seeking to emigrate to the UK. Ironically, as the current system massively favours immigrants from the EU, who are majority white, the UKIP system would be far less racist as it would view all potential immigrants based solely on attributes that would be of use to the UK.

The system works well for Australia and there is plenty of reading material on the Internet to explain to you how it works and how it's much better for the host nation and more fair to those seeking to enter it.

As with any other party, I'm sure there are myriad reasons why the people who voted UKIP chose to vote for them.

Your question is a bit like asking most people why they voted Labour. They'll have done so because their Mum & Dad did, there mates do, they're union types, they want increased benefits, they like telling other people what to do... and on and on.
[quote][p][bold]Badgersgetabadname[/bold] wrote: As there appear to be some on here that voted UKIP could you help me understand some of the points? There is allot of it that to me seems vague, the points system to enter the country for instance will this effect those already living in the country? What constitutes worthwhile to the country? What made you vote UKIP? Was it the immigration issue or being so disheartened by the powers that be? What other UKIP policies do you support? All help greatly appreciated.[/p][/quote]UKIP are advocating an Australian-style 'points system' for ANYONE seeking to emigrate to the UK. Ironically, as the current system massively favours immigrants from the EU, who are majority white, the UKIP system would be far less racist as it would view all potential immigrants based solely on attributes that would be of use to the UK. The system works well for Australia and there is plenty of reading material on the Internet to explain to you how it works and how it's much better for the host nation and more fair to those seeking to enter it. As with any other party, I'm sure there are myriad reasons why the people who voted UKIP chose to vote for them. Your question is a bit like asking most people why they voted Labour. They'll have done so because their Mum & Dad did, there mates do, they're union types, they want increased benefits, they like telling other people what to do... and on and on. ChannelX
  • Score: 7

6:13pm Tue 27 May 14

shed says...

Simple

I want out of the EU.

I voted all those years ago for free trade, open borders within a select group of European countries.
I did not vote to be governed by them, to allow in every fleabag state in need of a handout, or to pay welfare benefits for Polish children who have never been here.

Part of Europe, not swallowed up by it.
If that makes me facist, bigoted, rascist right wing I really don't care.
I am assuming all you europhiles will be pleased to fight for The EU if they succeed in their land grab in Ukraine, 'cos Putin will not stand by wringing his hands, and you'll be under sharia before you know it if they let Turkey join.
Simple I want out of the EU. I voted all those years ago for free trade, open borders within a select group of European countries. I did not vote to be governed by them, to allow in every fleabag state in need of a handout, or to pay welfare benefits for Polish children who have never been here. Part of Europe, not swallowed up by it. If that makes me facist, bigoted, rascist right wing I really don't care. I am assuming all you europhiles will be pleased to fight for The EU if they succeed in their land grab in Ukraine, 'cos Putin will not stand by wringing his hands, and you'll be under sharia before you know it if they let Turkey join. shed
  • Score: 4

7:05pm Tue 27 May 14

Badgersgetabadname says...

shed wrote:
Simple

I want out of the EU.

I voted all those years ago for free trade, open borders within a select group of European countries.
I did not vote to be governed by them, to allow in every fleabag state in need of a handout, or to pay welfare benefits for Polish children who have never been here.

Part of Europe, not swallowed up by it.
If that makes me facist, bigoted, rascist right wing I really don't care.
I am assuming all you europhiles will be pleased to fight for The EU if they succeed in their land grab in Ukraine, 'cos Putin will not stand by wringing his hands, and you'll be under sharia before you know it if they let Turkey join.
" under sharia before you know it" Really?....If thats a joke then I am laughing but I suspect its not.
Which laws have the EU passed that have affected you?

Is it just anti European sentiment that made you vote UKIP?
Do you support the rest of their policies?
[quote][p][bold]shed[/bold] wrote: Simple I want out of the EU. I voted all those years ago for free trade, open borders within a select group of European countries. I did not vote to be governed by them, to allow in every fleabag state in need of a handout, or to pay welfare benefits for Polish children who have never been here. Part of Europe, not swallowed up by it. If that makes me facist, bigoted, rascist right wing I really don't care. I am assuming all you europhiles will be pleased to fight for The EU if they succeed in their land grab in Ukraine, 'cos Putin will not stand by wringing his hands, and you'll be under sharia before you know it if they let Turkey join.[/p][/quote]" under sharia before you know it" Really?....If thats a joke then I am laughing but I suspect its not. Which laws have the EU passed that have affected you? Is it just anti European sentiment that made you vote UKIP? Do you support the rest of their policies? Badgersgetabadname
  • Score: -1

10:08pm Tue 27 May 14

shed says...

Firstly, I am not anti Europe, I am a Francophile, love France and its culture also that of Spain and have enjoyed travelling around the rest of Europe for many years.

I am anti the European Union and its overwhelming bureaucracy and interference in every day life as well as the 50million quid a week we give them that would be better spent here.
Part of Europe, no problem, stuff their Unelected bureaucrats and their dodgy accounts.

I saw no disadvantage in the old style of border crossings, in fact in my view it added to the experience of travelling. Never had any problems.

As for laws the list is too long to list; but just in my sphere of interests the rubbish applying to motoring/MOT tests/unnecessary regulations/restrict
ions even down to forthcoming MOT proposals that emanates from Brussels not only is set to deprive me and many others of enjoyment but will either increase costs or price us out.
Even the proliferation of stupid recycling regs that disfigures out streets with wheelie bins come from the EU.

Repeal of the death penalty here was a condition of our entry, so that's another law.
The endless manipulation of EU laws by moneygrubbing lawyers has been shown to cost the taxpayer millions. Anything that takes money from the public purse impacts on us all in one way or another.

Turkey in the EU is the elephant in the room; not only is it unstable it has plenty of trouble with fundamentalist islam and it will become an open gate for the rest of the fanatic hordes looking for a way into the rest of Europe. We have seen what happens when the restraining hand is lifted in the Middle East.

Turkey and Greece are both members of Nato and both hate each other greatly, for historical reasons. That problem will take some solving.

To top it all off the greatest advocate for Turkish entry into the EU is Tony Blair.
That should be enough for anyone.
Firstly, I am not anti Europe, I am a Francophile, love France and its culture also that of Spain and have enjoyed travelling around the rest of Europe for many years. I am anti the European Union and its overwhelming bureaucracy and interference in every day life as well as the 50million quid a week we give them that would be better spent here. Part of Europe, no problem, stuff their Unelected bureaucrats and their dodgy accounts. I saw no disadvantage in the old style of border crossings, in fact in my view it added to the experience of travelling. Never had any problems. As for laws the list is too long to list; but just in my sphere of interests the rubbish applying to motoring/MOT tests/unnecessary regulations/restrict ions even down to forthcoming MOT proposals that emanates from Brussels not only is set to deprive me and many others of enjoyment but will either increase costs or price us out. Even the proliferation of stupid recycling regs that disfigures out streets with wheelie bins come from the EU. Repeal of the death penalty here was a condition of our entry, so that's another law. The endless manipulation of EU laws by moneygrubbing lawyers has been shown to cost the taxpayer millions. Anything that takes money from the public purse impacts on us all in one way or another. Turkey in the EU is the elephant in the room; not only is it unstable it has plenty of trouble with fundamentalist islam and it will become an open gate for the rest of the fanatic hordes looking for a way into the rest of Europe. We have seen what happens when the restraining hand is lifted in the Middle East. Turkey and Greece are both members of Nato and both hate each other greatly, for historical reasons. That problem will take some solving. To top it all off the greatest advocate for Turkish entry into the EU is Tony Blair. That should be enough for anyone. shed
  • Score: 7

10:08am Wed 28 May 14

ChannelX says...

Badgersgetabadname wrote:
shed wrote:
Simple

I want out of the EU.

I voted all those years ago for free trade, open borders within a select group of European countries.
I did not vote to be governed by them, to allow in every fleabag state in need of a handout, or to pay welfare benefits for Polish children who have never been here.

Part of Europe, not swallowed up by it.
If that makes me facist, bigoted, rascist right wing I really don't care.
I am assuming all you europhiles will be pleased to fight for The EU if they succeed in their land grab in Ukraine, 'cos Putin will not stand by wringing his hands, and you'll be under sharia before you know it if they let Turkey join.
" under sharia before you know it" Really?....If thats a joke then I am laughing but I suspect its not.
Which laws have the EU passed that have affected you?

Is it just anti European sentiment that made you vote UKIP?
Do you support the rest of their policies?
Turkey is an Islamic nation. Its population is around 10% larger than the UK. There is already a large, established Turkish population in the UK (ever been to North London?)

Turkey itself is poor, in comparison to the UK, and does not have a generous benefits system.

When Turkey gains ascension, the influx to the UK will dwarf the 3 million or so that we've seen from the EU so far.
[quote][p][bold]Badgersgetabadname[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]shed[/bold] wrote: Simple I want out of the EU. I voted all those years ago for free trade, open borders within a select group of European countries. I did not vote to be governed by them, to allow in every fleabag state in need of a handout, or to pay welfare benefits for Polish children who have never been here. Part of Europe, not swallowed up by it. If that makes me facist, bigoted, rascist right wing I really don't care. I am assuming all you europhiles will be pleased to fight for The EU if they succeed in their land grab in Ukraine, 'cos Putin will not stand by wringing his hands, and you'll be under sharia before you know it if they let Turkey join.[/p][/quote]" under sharia before you know it" Really?....If thats a joke then I am laughing but I suspect its not. Which laws have the EU passed that have affected you? Is it just anti European sentiment that made you vote UKIP? Do you support the rest of their policies?[/p][/quote]Turkey is an Islamic nation. Its population is around 10% larger than the UK. There is already a large, established Turkish population in the UK (ever been to North London?) Turkey itself is poor, in comparison to the UK, and does not have a generous benefits system. When Turkey gains ascension, the influx to the UK will dwarf the 3 million or so that we've seen from the EU so far. ChannelX
  • Score: 6

7:17pm Thu 29 May 14

Mender says...

I do hope they help to push the Tories out of this area and Westminster. This government sanctions disabled people into starvation. Vote anything but Tory please!
I do hope they help to push the Tories out of this area and Westminster. This government sanctions disabled people into starvation. Vote anything but Tory please! Mender
  • Score: 0

12:36pm Fri 30 May 14

wilts_one says...

shed wrote:
Simple

I want out of the EU.

I voted all those years ago for free trade, open borders within a select group of European countries.
I did not vote to be governed by them, to allow in every fleabag state in need of a handout, or to pay welfare benefits for Polish children who have never been here.

Part of Europe, not swallowed up by it.
If that makes me facist, bigoted, rascist right wing I really don't care.
I am assuming all you europhiles will be pleased to fight for The EU if they succeed in their land grab in Ukraine, 'cos Putin will not stand by wringing his hands, and you'll be under sharia before you know it if they let Turkey join.
Why would you be under sharia law if they let Turkey join? They don't have it there!
[quote][p][bold]shed[/bold] wrote: Simple I want out of the EU. I voted all those years ago for free trade, open borders within a select group of European countries. I did not vote to be governed by them, to allow in every fleabag state in need of a handout, or to pay welfare benefits for Polish children who have never been here. Part of Europe, not swallowed up by it. If that makes me facist, bigoted, rascist right wing I really don't care. I am assuming all you europhiles will be pleased to fight for The EU if they succeed in their land grab in Ukraine, 'cos Putin will not stand by wringing his hands, and you'll be under sharia before you know it if they let Turkey join.[/p][/quote]Why would you be under sharia law if they let Turkey join? They don't have it there! wilts_one
  • Score: 0

1:32pm Fri 30 May 14

IfItsONtheNet says...

ChannelX wrote:
Badgersgetabadname wrote:
shed wrote:
Simple

I want out of the EU.

I voted all those years ago for free trade, open borders within a select group of European countries.
I did not vote to be governed by them, to allow in every fleabag state in need of a handout, or to pay welfare benefits for Polish children who have never been here.

Part of Europe, not swallowed up by it.
If that makes me facist, bigoted, rascist right wing I really don't care.
I am assuming all you europhiles will be pleased to fight for The EU if they succeed in their land grab in Ukraine, 'cos Putin will not stand by wringing his hands, and you'll be under sharia before you know it if they let Turkey join.
" under sharia before you know it" Really?....If thats a joke then I am laughing but I suspect its not.
Which laws have the EU passed that have affected you?

Is it just anti European sentiment that made you vote UKIP?
Do you support the rest of their policies?
Turkey is an Islamic nation. Its population is around 10% larger than the UK. There is already a large, established Turkish population in the UK (ever been to North London?)

Turkey itself is poor, in comparison to the UK, and does not have a generous benefits system.

When Turkey gains ascension, the influx to the UK will dwarf the 3 million or so that we've seen from the EU so far.
This sounds similar to the "Romanians are coming" from recent history. Are you aware that Romanians in UK dropped by over 4,000 since entry.
This kind of fearmongering is not helpful, yes you can say potentially more Turkish people will come to the UK. Anything else surely should be prefixed by in your opinion or potentially.
[quote][p][bold]ChannelX[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Badgersgetabadname[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]shed[/bold] wrote: Simple I want out of the EU. I voted all those years ago for free trade, open borders within a select group of European countries. I did not vote to be governed by them, to allow in every fleabag state in need of a handout, or to pay welfare benefits for Polish children who have never been here. Part of Europe, not swallowed up by it. If that makes me facist, bigoted, rascist right wing I really don't care. I am assuming all you europhiles will be pleased to fight for The EU if they succeed in their land grab in Ukraine, 'cos Putin will not stand by wringing his hands, and you'll be under sharia before you know it if they let Turkey join.[/p][/quote]" under sharia before you know it" Really?....If thats a joke then I am laughing but I suspect its not. Which laws have the EU passed that have affected you? Is it just anti European sentiment that made you vote UKIP? Do you support the rest of their policies?[/p][/quote]Turkey is an Islamic nation. Its population is around 10% larger than the UK. There is already a large, established Turkish population in the UK (ever been to North London?) Turkey itself is poor, in comparison to the UK, and does not have a generous benefits system. When Turkey gains ascension, the influx to the UK will dwarf the 3 million or so that we've seen from the EU so far.[/p][/quote]This sounds similar to the "Romanians are coming" from recent history. Are you aware that Romanians in UK dropped by over 4,000 since entry. This kind of fearmongering is not helpful, yes you can say potentially more Turkish people will come to the UK. Anything else surely should be prefixed by in your opinion or potentially. IfItsONtheNet
  • Score: 0

1:37pm Fri 30 May 14

shed says...

deluded fool.
the entire raison d'etre for Islam is to dominate the world.

Sharia law is just under the surface of all muslim states.

Have you not seen the fanatics here in the UK crying out for it and saying its what they want?
Have you heard the Muslims here denying it.?
No and you will not ever.

People like you are as dangerous as the fanatics.
deluded fool. the entire raison d'etre for Islam is to dominate the world. Sharia law is just under the surface of all muslim states. Have you not seen the fanatics here in the UK crying out for it and saying its what they want? Have you heard the Muslims here denying it.? No and you will not ever. People like you are as dangerous as the fanatics. shed
  • Score: 1

2:19pm Fri 30 May 14

Badgersgetabadname says...

Shed mentioned repealing the death penalty as a bad thing,,,civilized society does not execute.
A few have mentioned "making Britain great again" what is the meaning of this? Return to empire?

To suggest voting UKIP is a legacy (voting as your parents did) is a ridiculous statement given that UKIP were formed in 1993.
As someone else stated Turkey do not have Sharia law and even countries that do use it as a flexible tool which changes depending on country it also changes depending on the year. I am sure you know all this from research rather than just reading the DM headline or the recent UKIP posters.
From reading the comments people will be happy to have UKIP win the next GE (a government people voted for what a thing that would be) and take all the policies that come with it as long as we leave the EU and bring in points system to enter the country?
Is this correct?

How will nationals be effected that dont match the points system?

ChanX you have spent two weeks chasing me across every thread I have been on since telling you, you had lost the right to talk to me. This is still the case, I offered to debate in an adult way you are unable to do this in any shape or form, as soon as you do not agree with the opinions of someone else you launch into your personal attacks I believe you previously described it as "Robustly argue" are you the person who said they wanted to "machine gun lefties"?
Your arguments are circular and dull, repeating the same thing does not make it true although your mantra does seem to hinge on "make your lie big and say it often enough people will believe it".

Apologies I digress, will voters be happy to see UKIP in charge and if so is it based on just two policies?
What other policies do you like about UKIP.
Could UKIP voters name 3 reasons they voted the way they did please?
Shed mentioned repealing the death penalty as a bad thing,,,civilized society does not execute. A few have mentioned "making Britain great again" what is the meaning of this? Return to empire? To suggest voting UKIP is a legacy (voting as your parents did) is a ridiculous statement given that UKIP were formed in 1993. As someone else stated Turkey do not have Sharia law and even countries that do use it as a flexible tool which changes depending on country it also changes depending on the year. I am sure you know all this from research rather than just reading the DM headline or the recent UKIP posters. From reading the comments people will be happy to have UKIP win the next GE (a government people voted for what a thing that would be) and take all the policies that come with it as long as we leave the EU and bring in points system to enter the country? Is this correct? How will nationals be effected that dont match the points system? ChanX you have spent two weeks chasing me across every thread I have been on since telling you, you had lost the right to talk to me. This is still the case, I offered to debate in an adult way you are unable to do this in any shape or form, as soon as you do not agree with the opinions of someone else you launch into your personal attacks I believe you previously described it as "Robustly argue" are you the person who said they wanted to "machine gun lefties"? Your arguments are circular and dull, repeating the same thing does not make it true although your mantra does seem to hinge on "make your lie big and say it often enough people will believe it". Apologies I digress, will voters be happy to see UKIP in charge and if so is it based on just two policies? What other policies do you like about UKIP. Could UKIP voters name 3 reasons they voted the way they did please? Badgersgetabadname
  • Score: 1

2:36pm Fri 30 May 14

IfItsONtheNet says...

shed wrote:
deluded fool.
the entire raison d'etre for Islam is to dominate the world.

Sharia law is just under the surface of all muslim states.

Have you not seen the fanatics here in the UK crying out for it and saying its what they want?
Have you heard the Muslims here denying it.?
No and you will not ever.

People like you are as dangerous as the fanatics.
Nice language.
By definition thats what fanatics do...There are fanatics on both side of this argument?
Do you think all Muslims want to take over the world?
Yes I have seen fanatics I have also seen Muslims calling for peace.

By your reasoning we should be wary of all English people as they drink in the street shouting obscenities and throwing bricks as demonstrated by every EDL/BNP etc march?
Are these statements true?
[quote][p][bold]shed[/bold] wrote: deluded fool. the entire raison d'etre for Islam is to dominate the world. Sharia law is just under the surface of all muslim states. Have you not seen the fanatics here in the UK crying out for it and saying its what they want? Have you heard the Muslims here denying it.? No and you will not ever. People like you are as dangerous as the fanatics.[/p][/quote]Nice language. By definition thats what fanatics do...There are fanatics on both side of this argument? Do you think all Muslims want to take over the world? Yes I have seen fanatics I have also seen Muslims calling for peace. By your reasoning we should be wary of all English people as they drink in the street shouting obscenities and throwing bricks as demonstrated by every EDL/BNP etc march? Are these statements true? IfItsONtheNet
  • Score: -1

4:07pm Fri 30 May 14

shed says...

"Do you think all Muslims want to take over the world?"

Its a stated aim of Islam.
no other religion has a death penalty for apostacy
no other religion degrades women so much as Islam does.
No other religion is as violent even to its own people as is Islam while claiming to be a religion of peace.

Muslims kill more muslims daily than all other forces together.

3 reasons for voting UKIP?
out of the EU.
Be part of europe not submissive to it.
Sick and tired of the rotten rubbish in charge.

Yes you'd be very wise to avoid the sort of english person that drinks in the streets and throws bricks.
you'll also find it a wise thing to avoid certain areas of London if you carry a can of beer home.

I think you'll find that the most violence and obscenities at EDL/BNP etc marches are coming the other rent a mob /LSE lot to whom free speech is only for their point of view.

As for the death penalty issue you are thereby labelling every muslim country in the world uncivilised? or the USA?
And if you think every UKIP voter is a supporter of the EDL/BNP then you are confirming that indeed you are deluded.
You also expose your own political agenda.
Either that or the Iman let you out early today.

"Do you think all Muslims want to take over the world?"

Its a stated aim of Islam.
no other religion has a death penalty for apostacy
no other religion degrades women so much as Islam does.
No other religion is as violent even to its own people as is Islam while claiming to be a religion of peace.

Muslims kill more muslims daily than all other forces together.

3 reasons for voting UKIP?
out of the EU.
Be part of europe not submissive to it.
Sick and tired of the rotten rubbish in charge.

Yes you'd be very wise to avoid the sort of english person that drinks in the streets and throws bricks.
you'll also find it a wise thing to avoid certain areas of London if you carry a can of beer home.

I think you'll find that the most violence and obscenities at EDL/BNP etc marches are coming the other rent a mob /LSE lot to whom free speech is only for their point of view.

As for the death penalty issue you are thereby labelling every muslim country in the world uncivilised? or the USA?
And if you think every UKIP voter is a supporter of the EDL/BNP then you are confirming that indeed you are deluded.
You also expose your own political agenda.
Either that or the Iman let you out early today.



"Do you think all Muslims want to take over the world?"

Its a stated aim of Islam.
no other religion has a death penalty for apostacy
no other religion degrades women so much as Islam does.
No other religion is as violent even to its own people as is Islam while claiming to be a religion of peace.

Muslims kill more muslims daily than all other forces together.

3 reasons for voting UKIP?
out of the EU.
Be part of europe not submissive to it.
Sick and tired of the rotten rubbish in charge.

Yes you'd be very wise to avoid the sort of english person that drinks in the streets and throws bricks.
you'll also find it a wise thing to avoid certain areas of London if you carry a can of beer home.

I think you'll find that the most violence and obscenities at EDL/BNP etc marches are coming the other rent a mob /LSE lot to whom free speech is only for their point of view.

As for the death penalty issue you are thereby labelling every muslim country in the world uncivilised? or the USA?
And if you think every UKIP voter is a supporter of the EDL/BNP then you are confirming that indeed you are deluded.
You also expose your own political agenda.
Either that or the Iman let you out early today.


here; the necessary links back to each Koran verse included.
enjoy.

http://www.wikiislam
.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_
Hadith_and_Scholars:
Islamic_Silliness#Sa
y_no_to_green_jars_a
nd_white_jars
"Do you think all Muslims want to take over the world?" Its a stated aim of Islam. no other religion has a death penalty for apostacy no other religion degrades women so much as Islam does. No other religion is as violent even to its own people as is Islam while claiming to be a religion of peace. Muslims kill more muslims daily than all other forces together. 3 reasons for voting UKIP? out of the EU. Be part of europe not submissive to it. Sick and tired of the rotten rubbish in charge. Yes you'd be very wise to avoid the sort of english person that drinks in the streets and throws bricks. you'll also find it a wise thing to avoid certain areas of London if you carry a can of beer home. I think you'll find that the most violence and obscenities at EDL/BNP etc marches are coming the other rent a mob /LSE lot to whom free speech is only for their point of view. As for the death penalty issue you are thereby labelling every muslim country in the world uncivilised? or the USA? And if you think every UKIP voter is a supporter of the EDL/BNP then you are confirming that indeed you are deluded. You also expose your own political agenda. Either that or the Iman let you out early today. "Do you think all Muslims want to take over the world?" Its a stated aim of Islam. no other religion has a death penalty for apostacy no other religion degrades women so much as Islam does. No other religion is as violent even to its own people as is Islam while claiming to be a religion of peace. Muslims kill more muslims daily than all other forces together. 3 reasons for voting UKIP? out of the EU. Be part of europe not submissive to it. Sick and tired of the rotten rubbish in charge. Yes you'd be very wise to avoid the sort of english person that drinks in the streets and throws bricks. you'll also find it a wise thing to avoid certain areas of London if you carry a can of beer home. I think you'll find that the most violence and obscenities at EDL/BNP etc marches are coming the other rent a mob /LSE lot to whom free speech is only for their point of view. As for the death penalty issue you are thereby labelling every muslim country in the world uncivilised? or the USA? And if you think every UKIP voter is a supporter of the EDL/BNP then you are confirming that indeed you are deluded. You also expose your own political agenda. Either that or the Iman let you out early today. "Do you think all Muslims want to take over the world?" Its a stated aim of Islam. no other religion has a death penalty for apostacy no other religion degrades women so much as Islam does. No other religion is as violent even to its own people as is Islam while claiming to be a religion of peace. Muslims kill more muslims daily than all other forces together. 3 reasons for voting UKIP? out of the EU. Be part of europe not submissive to it. Sick and tired of the rotten rubbish in charge. Yes you'd be very wise to avoid the sort of english person that drinks in the streets and throws bricks. you'll also find it a wise thing to avoid certain areas of London if you carry a can of beer home. I think you'll find that the most violence and obscenities at EDL/BNP etc marches are coming the other rent a mob /LSE lot to whom free speech is only for their point of view. As for the death penalty issue you are thereby labelling every muslim country in the world uncivilised? or the USA? And if you think every UKIP voter is a supporter of the EDL/BNP then you are confirming that indeed you are deluded. You also expose your own political agenda. Either that or the Iman let you out early today. here; the necessary links back to each Koran verse included. enjoy. http://www.wikiislam .net/wiki/Qur%27an,_ Hadith_and_Scholars: Islamic_Silliness#Sa y_no_to_green_jars_a nd_white_jars shed
  • Score: 0

4:09pm Fri 30 May 14

shed says...

repeated text in my last post not my fault, the getzworse seems to have hiccupped
repeated text in my last post not my fault, the getzworse seems to have hiccupped shed
  • Score: 0

4:15pm Fri 30 May 14

shed says...

Come on, tell me this is all made up fantasy.

http://www.thereligi
onofpeace.com/
Come on, tell me this is all made up fantasy. http://www.thereligi onofpeace.com/ shed
  • Score: 0

4:24pm Fri 30 May 14

shed says...

More "lies"


Weekly Jihad Report
May 17 - May 23 2014
Jihad Attacks:

50
Allah Akbars*:
*suicide bombs

7
Dead Bodies:

561
Critically Injured:

495
*Suicide Attacks

Monthly Jihad Report
April, 2014
Jihad Attacks:

203
Countries:

23
Allah Akbars:

36
Dead Bodies:

1571
Critically Injured:

2452
More "lies" Weekly Jihad Report May 17 - May 23 2014 Jihad Attacks: 50 Allah Akbars*: *suicide bombs 7 Dead Bodies: 561 Critically Injured: 495 *Suicide Attacks Monthly Jihad Report April, 2014 Jihad Attacks: 203 Countries: 23 Allah Akbars: 36 Dead Bodies: 1571 Critically Injured: 2452 shed
  • Score: 0

4:48pm Fri 30 May 14

IfItsONtheNet says...

shed wrote:
repeated text in my last post not my fault, the getzworse seems to have hiccupped
No problem, when I first saw it looked like essay of an answer.
Yes I think any country or state that uses a death penalty is uncivilized it only breeds more violence.

Like the Bible the Koran was written as a guide to religion and people take this as an excuse to act badly. There has been countless deaths in the name of religion Islam hardly has that to itself.
While I completely agree some of the actions of some sects is disgusting catholicism has a body count as well.
Religion is supposed to be a comfort for people but it is all too often used as a rod to control or a financial driver. That is not the fault of the religion it is the fault of the persons actions.

Not every white person is an idiot drinking in the street, racist or a moron in the same way that not every Muslim is a terrorist.

Completely agree that things do need to change as the rubbish that has run the country for the last 20 odd years have only done so to benefit themselves.
Do you agree with all UKIP`s proposed policies?
As to your comment "And if you think every UKIP voter is a supporter of the EDL/BNP then you are confirming that indeed you are deluded." I was saying exactly the opposite of that???
I find it strange that you can say that not all white people are drunken idiot racists yet confidently state all Muslims want to rule the world. Do you see any hypocrisy in your statement?
[quote][p][bold]shed[/bold] wrote: repeated text in my last post not my fault, the getzworse seems to have hiccupped[/p][/quote]No problem, when I first saw it looked like essay of an answer. Yes I think any country or state that uses a death penalty is uncivilized it only breeds more violence. Like the Bible the Koran was written as a guide to religion and people take this as an excuse to act badly. There has been countless deaths in the name of religion Islam hardly has that to itself. While I completely agree some of the actions of some sects is disgusting catholicism has a body count as well. Religion is supposed to be a comfort for people but it is all too often used as a rod to control or a financial driver. That is not the fault of the religion it is the fault of the persons actions. Not every white person is an idiot drinking in the street, racist or a moron in the same way that not every Muslim is a terrorist. Completely agree that things do need to change as the rubbish that has run the country for the last 20 odd years have only done so to benefit themselves. Do you agree with all UKIP`s proposed policies? As to your comment "And if you think every UKIP voter is a supporter of the EDL/BNP then you are confirming that indeed you are deluded." I was saying exactly the opposite of that??? I find it strange that you can say that not all white people are drunken idiot racists yet confidently state all Muslims want to rule the world. Do you see any hypocrisy in your statement? IfItsONtheNet
  • Score: -1

5:15pm Fri 30 May 14

shed says...

world domination, to make islam the only religion is a stated part of islamic teaching

""The objective, then, is to strike terror into the hearts of God's enemies, who are also the enemies of the advocates of Islam..." — Sayyid Qutb, chief ideologue of the Muslim Brotherhood in the 1950s and 1960s."

Quran (8:55) - Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve

Quran (8:12) - I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

Quran (5:33) - The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement

Quran (9:123) - O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness

The holiest book of Islam (61% of which is about non-Muslims) draws the sharpest of distinctions between Muslims (the best of people, 3:110) and non-believers (the worst of creatures, 98:6). Praise is lavished on the former while the latter is condemned with scorching generalization. Far from teaching universal love, the Quran incessantly preaches the inferiority of non-Muslims, even comparing them to vile animals and gloating over Allah's hatred of them and his dark plans for their eternal torture. Naturally, the harsh treatment of non-believers by Muslims is encouraged as well.

he only acceptable position of non-Muslims to Muslims is subjugation under Islamic rule:

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (9:29 Jizya is the money that non-Muslims must pay to their Muslim overlords in a pure Islamic state.)

I can go on so if you want to defend this vile creed you are welcome to, meanwhile we'll have to agree to disagree.

I won't even go into the peadophile behaviour and other depraved habits of its originator you only need to read the quran for that.
Or of its followers come to that.

As for
"I find it strange that you can say that not all white people are drunken idiot racists."
But they are not are they?
A whole world of difference between lying drunk in the street swearing and murdering someone in the name of some vile creed while shouting god is great peace be upon him.
world domination, to make islam the only religion is a stated part of islamic teaching ""The objective, then, is to strike terror into the hearts of God's enemies, who are also the enemies of the advocates of Islam..." — Sayyid Qutb, chief ideologue of the Muslim Brotherhood in the 1950s and 1960s." Quran (8:55) - Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve Quran (8:12) - I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them. Quran (5:33) - The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement Quran (9:123) - O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness The holiest book of Islam (61% of which is about non-Muslims) draws the sharpest of distinctions between Muslims (the best of people, 3:110) and non-believers (the worst of creatures, 98:6). Praise is lavished on the former while the latter is condemned with scorching generalization. Far from teaching universal love, the Quran incessantly preaches the inferiority of non-Muslims, even comparing them to vile animals and gloating over Allah's hatred of them and his dark plans for their eternal torture. Naturally, the harsh treatment of non-believers by Muslims is encouraged as well. he only acceptable position of non-Muslims to Muslims is subjugation under Islamic rule: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (9:29 Jizya is the money that non-Muslims must pay to their Muslim overlords in a pure Islamic state.) I can go on [and on and on] so if you want to defend this vile creed you are welcome to, meanwhile we'll have to agree to disagree. I won't even go into the peadophile behaviour and other depraved habits of its originator you only need to read the quran for that. Or of its followers come to that. As for "I find it strange that you can say that not all white people are drunken idiot racists." But they are not are they? A whole world of difference between lying drunk in the street swearing and murdering someone in the name of some vile creed while shouting god is great peace be upon him. shed
  • Score: 2

5:40pm Fri 30 May 14

IfItsONtheNet says...

shed wrote:
world domination, to make islam the only religion is a stated part of islamic teaching

""The objective, then, is to strike terror into the hearts of God's enemies, who are also the enemies of the advocates of Islam..." — Sayyid Qutb, chief ideologue of the Muslim Brotherhood in the 1950s and 1960s."

Quran (8:55) - Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve

Quran (8:12) - I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

Quran (5:33) - The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement

Quran (9:123) - O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness

The holiest book of Islam (61% of which is about non-Muslims) draws the sharpest of distinctions between Muslims (the best of people, 3:110) and non-believers (the worst of creatures, 98:6). Praise is lavished on the former while the latter is condemned with scorching generalization. Far from teaching universal love, the Quran incessantly preaches the inferiority of non-Muslims, even comparing them to vile animals and gloating over Allah's hatred of them and his dark plans for their eternal torture. Naturally, the harsh treatment of non-believers by Muslims is encouraged as well.

he only acceptable position of non-Muslims to Muslims is subjugation under Islamic rule:

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (9:29 Jizya is the money that non-Muslims must pay to their Muslim overlords in a pure Islamic state.)

I can go on so if you want to defend this vile creed you are welcome to, meanwhile we'll have to agree to disagree.

I won't even go into the peadophile behaviour and other depraved habits of its originator you only need to read the quran for that.
Or of its followers come to that.

As for
"I find it strange that you can say that not all white people are drunken idiot racists."
But they are not are they?
A whole world of difference between lying drunk in the street swearing and murdering someone in the name of some vile creed while shouting god is great peace be upon him.
You have made up your mind that all Muslims are evil people that seek only to hurt you and yours.
I think you are choosing to miss the point I make that not all Muslims are bad in the same way not all white people are racist violent morons.

If you were aiming your attack at Boko Harm or Muslim Botherhood I could understand your specific issue but to make a blanket statement about millions of people is a bit silly.

Are you also suggesting that child molestation is only carried out by muslims??? Gary Glitter, Jimmy saville, Stuart Hall I could go on but these vile perverts are disgusting and their crimes have nothing to do with creed or color.
Not sure I have been defending anyone only that all Muslims are murderers is as stupid a statement as all white are racist drunks who for centuries have looked to exploit countries.
If someone was to take the old testament as fact they would be committing terrible crimes but again that is not the fault of written words the fault is with the reader. It is dependent on being intelligent enough to know the difference, words written thousands of years after the facts they are supposed to represent are not to be taken literally, some sects of all religions are fanatical about their beliefs but the point is its not all people is it,,,,if that was the case there would be fighting in the streets.

Go outside talk to people of different nationalities and different religions its very different to the DM, Sky news world that is presented.
I am off to work now but will reply to anything left tomorrow.
Thanks for sharing your views its nice to get an insight.
[quote][p][bold]shed[/bold] wrote: world domination, to make islam the only religion is a stated part of islamic teaching ""The objective, then, is to strike terror into the hearts of God's enemies, who are also the enemies of the advocates of Islam..." — Sayyid Qutb, chief ideologue of the Muslim Brotherhood in the 1950s and 1960s." Quran (8:55) - Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve Quran (8:12) - I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them. Quran (5:33) - The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement Quran (9:123) - O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness The holiest book of Islam (61% of which is about non-Muslims) draws the sharpest of distinctions between Muslims (the best of people, 3:110) and non-believers (the worst of creatures, 98:6). Praise is lavished on the former while the latter is condemned with scorching generalization. Far from teaching universal love, the Quran incessantly preaches the inferiority of non-Muslims, even comparing them to vile animals and gloating over Allah's hatred of them and his dark plans for their eternal torture. Naturally, the harsh treatment of non-believers by Muslims is encouraged as well. he only acceptable position of non-Muslims to Muslims is subjugation under Islamic rule: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (9:29 Jizya is the money that non-Muslims must pay to their Muslim overlords in a pure Islamic state.) I can go on [and on and on] so if you want to defend this vile creed you are welcome to, meanwhile we'll have to agree to disagree. I won't even go into the peadophile behaviour and other depraved habits of its originator you only need to read the quran for that. Or of its followers come to that. As for "I find it strange that you can say that not all white people are drunken idiot racists." But they are not are they? A whole world of difference between lying drunk in the street swearing and murdering someone in the name of some vile creed while shouting god is great peace be upon him.[/p][/quote]You have made up your mind that all Muslims are evil people that seek only to hurt you and yours. I think you are choosing to miss the point I make that not all Muslims are bad in the same way not all white people are racist violent morons. If you were aiming your attack at Boko Harm or Muslim Botherhood I could understand your specific issue but to make a blanket statement about millions of people is a bit silly. Are you also suggesting that child molestation is only carried out by muslims??? Gary Glitter, Jimmy saville, Stuart Hall I could go on but these vile perverts are disgusting and their crimes have nothing to do with creed or color. Not sure I have been defending anyone only that all Muslims are murderers is as stupid a statement as all white are racist drunks who for centuries have looked to exploit countries. If someone was to take the old testament as fact they would be committing terrible crimes but again that is not the fault of written words the fault is with the reader. It is dependent on being intelligent enough to know the difference, words written thousands of years after the facts they are supposed to represent are not to be taken literally, some sects of all religions are fanatical about their beliefs but the point is its not all people is it,,,,if that was the case there would be fighting in the streets. Go outside talk to people of different nationalities and different religions its very different to the DM, Sky news world that is presented. I am off to work now but will reply to anything left tomorrow. Thanks for sharing your views its nice to get an insight. IfItsONtheNet
  • Score: -2

6:35pm Fri 30 May 14

shed says...

We'll have to agree to disagree.
Thanks for reasoned answers.

But throwing the DM at a debate is old hat.
I'm done, or I'll never get down the pub ;-)
We'll have to agree to disagree. Thanks for reasoned answers. But throwing the DM at a debate is old hat. I'm done, or I'll never get down the pub ;-) shed
  • Score: 2

11:24pm Fri 30 May 14

Phorever says...

TL:DR
I think that this is a wake up call for government. Which can only be a good thing, can't it?
Maybe one day, we will get the 'Great' back into 'Great Britain.'
TL:DR I think that this is a wake up call for government. Which can only be a good thing, can't it? Maybe one day, we will get the 'Great' back into 'Great Britain.' Phorever
  • Score: 1

9:51am Sat 31 May 14

Viva Trowvegas says...

I voted UKIP as a protest vote because sadly Con/Lib/Lab have merged into one and the same. I didn't take a lot of notice of the UKIP policies - sure, they go against the grain but they are the only ones that rail against the politically correct namby-pamby let's be everybody's mate centrist bull the usual suspects are spouting.

Oh for the days when the Tories were right wing and Labour were left wing and we knew where we stood. In these post-Thatcher years everyone decided to lurch to a hazy centrist Liberal centre - and we all know what a disaster they have been for the UK.

The worrying thing for me is religion, any religion. The is no proof any gods exist, just the writings and rantings of ancient nutters that deserve to be scrutinised by sovereign governments and educational movements created to counter the nut-jobs.

Schools need to start teaching that religion should not necessarily be respected and that greater consideration should be given to the advance of humanity, not in the name of any god, but humankind, we might start getting somewhere.

Brushing the problem under the carpet and hoping the backwards deluded fools don't gain any more ground is not good enough. They have infiltrated cities, towns, schools and universities. It's only a matter of time before one of these morons gets his hand on the button. And faced with the choice of killing everyone and getting his 57 virgins what do you think he'll do?

It's no good saying we have a war on terror (and let's face it, that is another name for a stand against religious backwards buffoons) without intellectuallising it and having proper discussions and starting to educate our kids that religion needs to be questioned we're heading for the dark ages or even worse, oblivion. Sorry but I can't see it going any other way.
I voted UKIP as a protest vote because sadly Con/Lib/Lab have merged into one and the same. I didn't take a lot of notice of the UKIP policies - sure, they go against the grain but they are the only ones that rail against the politically correct namby-pamby let's be everybody's mate centrist bull the usual suspects are spouting. Oh for the days when the Tories were right wing and Labour were left wing and we knew where we stood. In these post-Thatcher years everyone decided to lurch to a hazy centrist Liberal centre - and we all know what a disaster they have been for the UK. The worrying thing for me is religion, any religion. The is no proof any gods exist, just the writings and rantings of ancient nutters that deserve to be scrutinised by sovereign governments and educational movements created to counter the nut-jobs. Schools need to start teaching that religion should not necessarily be respected and that greater consideration should be given to the advance of humanity, not in the name of any god, but humankind, we might start getting somewhere. Brushing the problem under the carpet and hoping the backwards deluded fools don't gain any more ground is not good enough. They have infiltrated cities, towns, schools and universities. It's only a matter of time before one of these morons gets his hand on the button. And faced with the choice of killing everyone and getting his 57 virgins what do you think he'll do? It's no good saying we have a war on terror (and let's face it, that is another name for a stand against religious backwards buffoons) without intellectuallising it and having proper discussions and starting to educate our kids that religion needs to be questioned we're heading for the dark ages or even worse, oblivion. Sorry but I can't see it going any other way. Viva Trowvegas
  • Score: 4

11:56am Sat 31 May 14

IfItsONtheNet says...

shed wrote:
We'll have to agree to disagree.
Thanks for reasoned answers.

But throwing the DM at a debate is old hat.
I'm done, or I'll never get down the pub ;-)
Hope you enjoyed your few drinks.
Yeah probably was an old one lol.
Hope you have a good weekend fella look forward to conversing again.
[quote][p][bold]shed[/bold] wrote: We'll have to agree to disagree. Thanks for reasoned answers. But throwing the DM at a debate is old hat. I'm done, or I'll never get down the pub ;-)[/p][/quote]Hope you enjoyed your few drinks. Yeah probably was an old one lol. Hope you have a good weekend fella look forward to conversing again. IfItsONtheNet
  • Score: -1

1:29pm Sat 31 May 14

IfItsONtheNet says...

Viva Trowvegas wrote:
I voted UKIP as a protest vote because sadly Con/Lib/Lab have merged into one and the same. I didn't take a lot of notice of the UKIP policies - sure, they go against the grain but they are the only ones that rail against the politically correct namby-pamby let's be everybody's mate centrist bull the usual suspects are spouting.

Oh for the days when the Tories were right wing and Labour were left wing and we knew where we stood. In these post-Thatcher years everyone decided to lurch to a hazy centrist Liberal centre - and we all know what a disaster they have been for the UK.

The worrying thing for me is religion, any religion. The is no proof any gods exist, just the writings and rantings of ancient nutters that deserve to be scrutinised by sovereign governments and educational movements created to counter the nut-jobs.

Schools need to start teaching that religion should not necessarily be respected and that greater consideration should be given to the advance of humanity, not in the name of any god, but humankind, we might start getting somewhere.

Brushing the problem under the carpet and hoping the backwards deluded fools don't gain any more ground is not good enough. They have infiltrated cities, towns, schools and universities. It's only a matter of time before one of these morons gets his hand on the button. And faced with the choice of killing everyone and getting his 57 virgins what do you think he'll do?

It's no good saying we have a war on terror (and let's face it, that is another name for a stand against religious backwards buffoons) without intellectuallising it and having proper discussions and starting to educate our kids that religion needs to be questioned we're heading for the dark ages or even worse, oblivion. Sorry but I can't see it going any other way.
Spoken like Mr Farage had written it for you.
You cant see what going any other way? Do you believe western involvement in the middle east is based on religion? If this was the case surely troops would be in all countries not just the ones with oil and other precious materials.

Thankfully an honest voter, I am not sure where to start but let try anyway.
Green could also of been a protest vote as well as anyone of the fringe parties, was there something in particular that made you vote for UKIP without looking at their policies (as you stated)

To start with UKIP have made no religious policy or to my knowledge comments on religion other than the party members who have made some pretty disgusting remarks (Gerard Batten) which have always been dismissed by Farage. It seems odd that party members who constantly make inflammatory comments which the leader then states as not being the opinion of the party are still allowed to remain.
On a number of occasions Mr Farage`s response to this is that he was unaware of the opinions made (LBC interview) and has also stated he had no knowledge of the person making the comment (considering his earlier, we are a small party that are close comments this is strange)
Do you believe UKIP can alter or remove religion?
You use the example of the 57 versions do you know this only applies to particular sects and mostly "fanatical" versions I would argue that any "Islamic" horror you care to mention could be matched or surpassed by those claiming to be Christian. Using the old testament would also seem antiquated but religious groups do. Many right wing groups have used religion as a reason to kill and wound LGBT`s.

You mentioned education this will have a spending freeze put on it so I am unsure of how your idea to educate people will happen with a heavily diminished education system. Unless of course you go to a select group of private schools in which case their budgets will be dramatically raised.
UKIP have stated they want to develop the already gifted and those who already have a level of education......
This from a party claiming to be one of the people

New taxation levels proposed by UKIP would hurt the man in the street the proposed flat rate seems to be in addition to all existing taxes....The reason UKIP have done so well may be because they have been so vague about what they want.

With all due respect you have used words like moron, deluded fools etc...but there seem to be massive gaps in your own knowledge??
If I may paraphrase you would be happy for anyone to be in power if religion was abolished?
[quote][p][bold]Viva Trowvegas[/bold] wrote: I voted UKIP as a protest vote because sadly Con/Lib/Lab have merged into one and the same. I didn't take a lot of notice of the UKIP policies - sure, they go against the grain but they are the only ones that rail against the politically correct namby-pamby let's be everybody's mate centrist bull the usual suspects are spouting. Oh for the days when the Tories were right wing and Labour were left wing and we knew where we stood. In these post-Thatcher years everyone decided to lurch to a hazy centrist Liberal centre - and we all know what a disaster they have been for the UK. The worrying thing for me is religion, any religion. The is no proof any gods exist, just the writings and rantings of ancient nutters that deserve to be scrutinised by sovereign governments and educational movements created to counter the nut-jobs. Schools need to start teaching that religion should not necessarily be respected and that greater consideration should be given to the advance of humanity, not in the name of any god, but humankind, we might start getting somewhere. Brushing the problem under the carpet and hoping the backwards deluded fools don't gain any more ground is not good enough. They have infiltrated cities, towns, schools and universities. It's only a matter of time before one of these morons gets his hand on the button. And faced with the choice of killing everyone and getting his 57 virgins what do you think he'll do? It's no good saying we have a war on terror (and let's face it, that is another name for a stand against religious backwards buffoons) without intellectuallising it and having proper discussions and starting to educate our kids that religion needs to be questioned we're heading for the dark ages or even worse, oblivion. Sorry but I can't see it going any other way.[/p][/quote]Spoken like Mr Farage had written it for you. You cant see what going any other way? Do you believe western involvement in the middle east is based on religion? If this was the case surely troops would be in all countries not just the ones with oil and other precious materials. Thankfully an honest voter, I am not sure where to start but let try anyway. Green could also of been a protest vote as well as anyone of the fringe parties, was there something in particular that made you vote for UKIP without looking at their policies (as you stated) To start with UKIP have made no religious policy or to my knowledge comments on religion other than the party members who have made some pretty disgusting remarks (Gerard Batten) which have always been dismissed by Farage. It seems odd that party members who constantly make inflammatory comments which the leader then states as not being the opinion of the party are still allowed to remain. On a number of occasions Mr Farage`s response to this is that he was unaware of the opinions made (LBC interview) and has also stated he had no knowledge of the person making the comment (considering his earlier, we are a small party that are close comments this is strange) Do you believe UKIP can alter or remove religion? You use the example of the 57 versions do you know this only applies to particular sects and mostly "fanatical" versions I would argue that any "Islamic" horror you care to mention could be matched or surpassed by those claiming to be Christian. Using the old testament would also seem antiquated but religious groups do. Many right wing groups have used religion as a reason to kill and wound LGBT`s. You mentioned education this will have a spending freeze put on it so I am unsure of how your idea to educate people will happen with a heavily diminished education system. Unless of course you go to a select group of private schools in which case their budgets will be dramatically raised. UKIP have stated they want to develop the already gifted and those who already have a level of education...... This from a party claiming to be one of the people New taxation levels proposed by UKIP would hurt the man in the street the proposed flat rate seems to be in addition to all existing taxes....The reason UKIP have done so well may be because they have been so vague about what they want. With all due respect you have used words like moron, deluded fools etc...but there seem to be massive gaps in your own knowledge?? If I may paraphrase you would be happy for anyone to be in power if religion was abolished? IfItsONtheNet
  • Score: -2

3:47pm Sat 31 May 14

Viva Trowvegas says...

Massive gaps in my knowledge? Knowledge is not a finite commodity. Interpretation of the concept of knowledge and what are regarded as "gaps" in knowledge are down to interpretation. Knowledge is unique to every individual, which means that if you can identify my knowledge gaps based on the above, you're either being disingenuous or just doing it for effect.

I am happy to admit I have plenty of gaps in knowledge, especially in the many subjects I'm not interested in, but it doesn't take an Einstein to understand that ancient cults with little or no foundation and their rabid proponents should be questioned with a little more conviction.

At the same time I am happy to refer back to what I said without being ashamed of using the terms I have used in relation to the people I am referring to. Or do you think people who butcher, maim, injure etc and their supported who do this in the name of religion are not buffoons, morons or deluded fools, but people who have a point?

I am not overly interested in your ramblings in the cost of education, UKIP, Farage, Batten, LBC interviews, etc. I do think you possibly over-analysed my post if you felt I needed to be lectured on those.

Reading or listening to the likes of Clegg, Cameron, Milliband, Blair and the rest of the political "elite" (sic) has made me realise I may as well stand up for what I believe in and not career politicians who know little about life. So why not post what I believe? Maybe someone of a like mind exists?

I voted UKIP not because I necessarily want them in power, but on current form I prefer them to the incumbents. If that fosters a little more creativity than the current serving of peecee nonsense we're getting from Con/Lib/Lab, then I've achieved my aim. I doubt it'll happen anytime soon, but I can always hope.

I don't need to be lectured that they have their faults. Just like me they have their gaps in knowledge. I don't feel I'm in a position to judge you based on any knowledge gaps you may have, but that may say more about me than it does about you.
Massive gaps in my knowledge? Knowledge is not a finite commodity. Interpretation of the concept of knowledge and what are regarded as "gaps" in knowledge are down to interpretation. Knowledge is unique to every individual, which means that if you can identify my knowledge gaps based on the above, you're either being disingenuous or just doing it for effect. I am happy to admit I have plenty of gaps in knowledge, especially in the many subjects I'm not interested in, but it doesn't take an Einstein to understand that ancient cults with little or no foundation and their rabid proponents should be questioned with a little more conviction. At the same time I am happy to refer back to what I said without being ashamed of using the terms I have used in relation to the people I am referring to. Or do you think people who butcher, maim, injure etc and their supported who do this in the name of religion are not buffoons, morons or deluded fools, but people who have a point? I am not overly interested in your ramblings in the cost of education, UKIP, Farage, Batten, LBC interviews, etc. I do think you possibly over-analysed my post if you felt I needed to be lectured on those. Reading or listening to the likes of Clegg, Cameron, Milliband, Blair and the rest of the political "elite" (sic) has made me realise I may as well stand up for what I believe in and not career politicians who know little about life. So why not post what I believe? Maybe someone of a like mind exists? I voted UKIP not because I necessarily want them in power, but on current form I prefer them to the incumbents. If that fosters a little more creativity than the current serving of peecee nonsense we're getting from Con/Lib/Lab, then I've achieved my aim. I doubt it'll happen anytime soon, but I can always hope. I don't need to be lectured that they have their faults. Just like me they have their gaps in knowledge. I don't feel I'm in a position to judge you based on any knowledge gaps you may have, but that may say more about me than it does about you. Viva Trowvegas
  • Score: 2

5:18pm Sat 31 May 14

IfItsONtheNet says...

Viva Trowvegas wrote:
Massive gaps in my knowledge? Knowledge is not a finite commodity. Interpretation of the concept of knowledge and what are regarded as "gaps" in knowledge are down to interpretation. Knowledge is unique to every individual, which means that if you can identify my knowledge gaps based on the above, you're either being disingenuous or just doing it for effect.

I am happy to admit I have plenty of gaps in knowledge, especially in the many subjects I'm not interested in, but it doesn't take an Einstein to understand that ancient cults with little or no foundation and their rabid proponents should be questioned with a little more conviction.

At the same time I am happy to refer back to what I said without being ashamed of using the terms I have used in relation to the people I am referring to. Or do you think people who butcher, maim, injure etc and their supported who do this in the name of religion are not buffoons, morons or deluded fools, but people who have a point?

I am not overly interested in your ramblings in the cost of education, UKIP, Farage, Batten, LBC interviews, etc. I do think you possibly over-analysed my post if you felt I needed to be lectured on those.

Reading or listening to the likes of Clegg, Cameron, Milliband, Blair and the rest of the political "elite" (sic) has made me realise I may as well stand up for what I believe in and not career politicians who know little about life. So why not post what I believe? Maybe someone of a like mind exists?

I voted UKIP not because I necessarily want them in power, but on current form I prefer them to the incumbents. If that fosters a little more creativity than the current serving of peecee nonsense we're getting from Con/Lib/Lab, then I've achieved my aim. I doubt it'll happen anytime soon, but I can always hope.

I don't need to be lectured that they have their faults. Just like me they have their gaps in knowledge. I don't feel I'm in a position to judge you based on any knowledge gaps you may have, but that may say more about me than it does about you.
So you voted purely on the issue of race and immigration?
Well I only referenced gaps in knowledge within this topic apologies if your intelligence was threatened by that.
You voted in ignorance of the parties policies that was your statement not mine as has been said earlier in the thread not all Muslims are looking to be violent or take over your life but any good work isnt reported the old classic of if it bleeds it leads this is true of all MSM.
Cuts in education is not my idea its the idea of UKIP the party you voted for.

If you had said I voted for UKIP because I didnt know what else to do that would of made sense.
You want to stand up for what you believe in which is commendable but from your posts I cannot see what that is. Other than your anti religion stand.
The main political parties are NOT going to scrap religions that will never happen, does this mean you will be voting UKIP in the GE.
I gave no lecture I highlighted an issue that UKIP as a party put stock in yet so few voters seem aware of.

From your comment you seem to be angry about violent acts committed in this country by some Muslims is that correct? and is that your sole reason for voting UKIP?
With this in mind I will ask the question again If I may paraphrase you would be happy for anyone to be in power if religion was abolished?

If enough people vote in the same way you have they will have some form of power or a coalition gov,,,,this one has proved to be useless so why not go again.
A little knowledge is dangerous but finish the paragraph and you may end up better informed.
I have only commented on your opinions related to this post not your overall intelligence or lack there of if you cant be bothered to read up on something as important as the political party that decides how you can or cannot live your life that is hardly my fault, not sure why your answers were so aggressive I asked why vote UKIP you seem to of taken challenging your opinion personally I had no intention of making you feel foolish.
[quote][p][bold]Viva Trowvegas[/bold] wrote: Massive gaps in my knowledge? Knowledge is not a finite commodity. Interpretation of the concept of knowledge and what are regarded as "gaps" in knowledge are down to interpretation. Knowledge is unique to every individual, which means that if you can identify my knowledge gaps based on the above, you're either being disingenuous or just doing it for effect. I am happy to admit I have plenty of gaps in knowledge, especially in the many subjects I'm not interested in, but it doesn't take an Einstein to understand that ancient cults with little or no foundation and their rabid proponents should be questioned with a little more conviction. At the same time I am happy to refer back to what I said without being ashamed of using the terms I have used in relation to the people I am referring to. Or do you think people who butcher, maim, injure etc and their supported who do this in the name of religion are not buffoons, morons or deluded fools, but people who have a point? I am not overly interested in your ramblings in the cost of education, UKIP, Farage, Batten, LBC interviews, etc. I do think you possibly over-analysed my post if you felt I needed to be lectured on those. Reading or listening to the likes of Clegg, Cameron, Milliband, Blair and the rest of the political "elite" (sic) has made me realise I may as well stand up for what I believe in and not career politicians who know little about life. So why not post what I believe? Maybe someone of a like mind exists? I voted UKIP not because I necessarily want them in power, but on current form I prefer them to the incumbents. If that fosters a little more creativity than the current serving of peecee nonsense we're getting from Con/Lib/Lab, then I've achieved my aim. I doubt it'll happen anytime soon, but I can always hope. I don't need to be lectured that they have their faults. Just like me they have their gaps in knowledge. I don't feel I'm in a position to judge you based on any knowledge gaps you may have, but that may say more about me than it does about you.[/p][/quote]So you voted purely on the issue of race and immigration? Well I only referenced gaps in knowledge within this topic apologies if your intelligence was threatened by that. You voted in ignorance of the parties policies that was your statement not mine as has been said earlier in the thread not all Muslims are looking to be violent or take over your life but any good work isnt reported the old classic of if it bleeds it leads this is true of all MSM. Cuts in education is not my idea its the idea of UKIP the party you voted for. If you had said I voted for UKIP because I didnt know what else to do that would of made sense. You want to stand up for what you believe in which is commendable but from your posts I cannot see what that is. Other than your anti religion stand. The main political parties are NOT going to scrap religions that will never happen, does this mean you will be voting UKIP in the GE. I gave no lecture I highlighted an issue that UKIP as a party put stock in yet so few voters seem aware of. From your comment you seem to be angry about violent acts committed in this country by some Muslims is that correct? and is that your sole reason for voting UKIP? With this in mind I will ask the question again If I may paraphrase you would be happy for anyone to be in power if religion was abolished? If enough people vote in the same way you have they will have some form of power or a coalition gov,,,,this one has proved to be useless so why not go again. A little knowledge is dangerous but finish the paragraph and you may end up better informed. I have only commented on your opinions related to this post not your overall intelligence or lack there of if you cant be bothered to read up on something as important as the political party that decides how you can or cannot live your life that is hardly my fault, not sure why your answers were so aggressive I asked why vote UKIP you seem to of taken challenging your opinion personally I had no intention of making you feel foolish. IfItsONtheNet
  • Score: -1

5:49pm Sat 31 May 14

Viva Trowvegas says...

Don't worry you didn't make me feel foolish. Aggressive? Really?? Apologies if that came across.

I do plenty of "reading up" on politics. My comments were related to the article and subsequent posts on here but I do ramble. I didn't mention violent acts committed in this country and although 95% probably is radical Islam, I did state "any religion" - I'm worried for the World (I thought that was obvious when I mentioned sovereign governments)

I tend not to elaborate on the rest of my views of politics as they can be rather dull, doesn't mean to say I'm lacking in knowledge or incapable of having an opinion. I just don't find the people who've run the country for the last 44 years have done us many favours.

Sometimes it's easier not to expand as I have a propensity to bore, and as you've probably noticed, that comes easy to me.
Don't worry you didn't make me feel foolish. Aggressive? Really?? Apologies if that came across. I do plenty of "reading up" on politics. My comments were related to the article and subsequent posts on here but I do ramble. I didn't mention violent acts committed in this country and although 95% probably is radical Islam, I did state "any religion" - I'm worried for the World (I thought that was obvious when I mentioned sovereign governments) I tend not to elaborate on the rest of my views of politics as they can be rather dull, doesn't mean to say I'm lacking in knowledge or incapable of having an opinion. I just don't find the people who've run the country for the last 44 years have done us many favours. Sometimes it's easier not to expand as I have a propensity to bore, and as you've probably noticed, that comes easy to me. Viva Trowvegas
  • Score: 1

10:16pm Sat 31 May 14

shed says...

Don't argue with them they'll just keep talking you round in circles.

Just keep voting UKIP.
Don't argue with them they'll just keep talking you round in circles. Just keep voting UKIP. shed
  • Score: 1

3:15pm Mon 2 Jun 14

IfItsONtheNet says...

shed wrote:
Don't argue with them they'll just keep talking you round in circles.

Just keep voting UKIP.
In fairness that is a pretty silly comment,
Debate often feels circular when people dont agree as you want to feel your side is progressing.
You listed a body count earlier as to bombings etc....I wonder what one would look like from the other side.
weddings blown apart by drones, hospitals destroyed in air strikes, troops going door to door shooting people. All of this happened long before 9/11 or 7/7 or whenever people decided its ok to hate a group of people because of the actions of a few.

@VivaTrowbridge
95% of violent acts are committed by radical Islam???? Really??? What is that based on?
Expanding on points is a good thing new ideas are formed this way and lets face it new ideas on how to deal with the world we now live in are what we need.
[quote][p][bold]shed[/bold] wrote: Don't argue with them they'll just keep talking you round in circles. Just keep voting UKIP.[/p][/quote]In fairness that is a pretty silly comment, Debate often feels circular when people dont agree as you want to feel your side is progressing. You listed a body count earlier as to bombings etc....I wonder what one would look like from the other side. weddings blown apart by drones, hospitals destroyed in air strikes, troops going door to door shooting people. All of this happened long before 9/11 or 7/7 or whenever people decided its ok to hate a group of people because of the actions of a few. @VivaTrowbridge 95% of violent acts are committed by radical Islam???? Really??? What is that based on? Expanding on points is a good thing new ideas are formed this way and lets face it new ideas on how to deal with the world we now live in are what we need. IfItsONtheNet
  • Score: -1

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